Can someone help me out. I have two 5' blades to get fixed, where should I send them? I would like them to start next season without any problems.
Can someone help me out. I have two 5' blades to get fixed, where should I send them? I would like them to start next season without any problems.
Where are you?
I wouldn't send them to Ice King.
You have two options, Ice King and Icemaster
Personally I use Ice King, and they are very good. You can get contact info on their website at www.iceking.ca
call JT Machineknife they'll run your blade through their QC department and return it 100% www.jtmachineknife.com
Hey what types of blades u have? send me your details.I am also having some types of blades, but its not working well.what can i do?
[EDIT FROM MIKE POTTER, OWNER OF INTHEHACK: This post contains information that is not true. Ice King has not gone out of business - see posts following this for follow up information.]
Ice King has gone out of business. Hasn't anyone confirmed this yet or are you all waiting for the next curling season to start before you realize Ice King won't be able to sharpen your blades, or honor any warranties, or deliver anymore machines.
At the very least, don't send you blades to Smith Falls for sharpening without calling first. You may not get the blade(s) back, or you may have to pay for shipping both ways and all you'll get back is your dull blade(s).
Just trying to save some clubs some grief, not trying to spread nasty rumors. I know what I'm talking about. I don't have to research anything. I know for a definate fact that Ice King is no more.
If you don't believe me, instead of criticizing and scolding me (and suggesting that Bill take me to court) for spreading the truth, why doesn't someone call Bill Wood at 613-283-2323 and ask him point blank. He can only lie for so long.
Upon calling Ice King (at 11:45pm), I got their answering machine. They are now on Summer Hours, open Tuesdays and Thursdays
And for more definite proof, I happen to be going with Bill to the Knoxville Summerspiel on Sunday, Ice King is providing a scraper and blades for the event. That would be tricky to do if the company was shut down.
Here's a plan... If you claim to not want to spread nasty rumours, then please try refraining from spreading nasty rumours! It will make your goal much more achievable.
Ok, instead of assuming, why don't you call me and find out. We have over a hundred blades that we just finished and shipped out and 15 machines on order for the fall. We are currently in the summer period and I have limited staff. We just finished putting a new grinder together for the in rush of blades in the fall. Better yet send me an email with your phone number and I will call you back.
Thanks
Bill Wood
Ice King
I also have heard rumors in the States about Ice King's supposed demise. A few of the concerns are that another company is in the very, very early stages of offering a bid to take over the company and continuing the a line of icemaking products under another name (something to that effect). But that is what they are...just rumors. You read about these types of rumors everyday in the business world and curling is no exception. So...Why doesn't everyone just back-off a bit and let history take it's course. I'm sure that the correct information will come out in the near future and all it takes is a little patience to wait for future events to work themselves out.
I personally think that it's a good idea to have some friendly competition in the icemaking products category. But, everyone is entitled to their own opinion(s). And you all know what opinions are like...
It has taken a long time for this forum to get to this stage. Anyone that posts purely for the purpose of adding "something new" without checking the facts....Well, I personally have no time for them or their egos and ideas. The object is to make curling icemaking methods available to everyone, not to bash an icemaker, mis-state a service companies intentions, or cause "unnecessary trouble on this site".
Just my two cents...
JimN.
"Hollywood"
It is not a rumor! I have seen the legal paperwork. The facts have been checked and verified.
Why Bill continues to posts total lies here, for all to see, is more than puzzling.
No matter. Just don't send your blades to Smiths Falls Ontario for sharpening unless you know for sure you will get them back.
Whether or not there is some sophisticated, complicated business strategy in the works to save Bill but NOT Ice King, the fact remains that Ice King is in financial trouble, so please be careful.
There are a lot of small clubs out there that can not afford to pay outrageous shipping fees, or worse yet, buy a new blade.
I do believe it is only proper that Mike Potter remove his remark at the beginning of my post.
I also believe he should have 'researched' the issue before inserting it there.
Obviously Bill Wood's 'word' isn't enough.
I have to say, my concern was for everyone, especially Ice King customers, to be careful when doing business with Ice King at this time ( as well as during the off season). I can not believe the attacks I received for doing so.
Hopefully I have spared some clubs the misfortune of losing a blade or two.
Hopefully no warranty work will be required from anyone with a new Ice King Scraper.
I regret the harsh feelings this issue has raised.
Cor Blimey, mate, those guys north of the US of A really have no class. Look at Ice King. Will it, won't it. Is it, isn't it. But it is, it will, it does.
There's one easy way of destroying the integrity of a forum, and that is to post information that isn't fact. There is another way to do it and it's worse: to post unproven information under a hidden name. This is criminal territory, guys, get your act together, Ice King is open until Bill Wood says it is shut for good. Disgusting.
I expect an apology to him on this site before the morning (my time), or I'm out of here.
Take it eay there John no need to leave because someone posted wrong information.Bill has spoken and we need not worry about it anymore.I agree its to bad that things like that get posted .If you belive everything on this site you are in for a few surprises.regards montie
Oh oh smell something fishy going on.I sincerly hope for everyones sake I am wrong.
Don't worry. I won't expect an apology either.
That's okay, Montie, I can be patient too. As for fishy, my point is that it is up to Bill to tell us whether he's shut or not. Until he says otherwise, he's open. If someone has a need to pick a fight with that he needs to do it somewhere else, rather than here where he will harm Bill's business.
I don't know who this "curious" is but he only wants to post false info about Ice King. We should all ignore anything he has to say because it is worthless.
Curious is right. I've seen the legal paperwork.
Perhaps instead of shooting the messenger, you should listen to the warning and find out before shipping any blades to Smiths Falls Ontario.
Thank You Curly Cue. That is my only goal. To warn clubs to not risk anything when shipping blades to Smiths Falls Ont.
Never mind why, rather how on earth could I ruin someone's business by posting true facts. Even if this was just a nasty rumor, I still couldn't have hurt Ice King's business in the slightest. Obviously, judging from all the 'attacks' I took for bringing this TRUE fact to everyone's attention. It doesn't make sense.
Then again, the fact Bill has lied and denied the truth, here in writing, 2 different times, doesn't make sense either.
Good wishes to all when the next season starts up.
Curly Cue & Curious:
I spent a week and a half with Bill down in Knoxville, Tennessee this month doing the ice for a summerspiel.
Ice King is NOT going out of business, and in fact Bill just put a new grinder into his shop which was not cheap. By all accounts, they're still as busy as ever and won't be going anywhere.
Curly Cue: As for seeing "legal paperwork", I ask how would you have got your hands on this, and who sent it to you? And exactly what issue does this paperwork deal with?
And Bill wouldn't be lying right?
Have you been to Smiths Falls?
Wonder how Bill can sharpen 100 blades and be in Knoxville for a week and a half. Did he have his Ice King Truck/Trailer with him? No...because it's parked with grass growing over it.
As for legal papers ... all creditors get one!
I have been reading this string for the last month and feel it's about time I put in my two cents.
I know Bill Wood at Ice King and I was in fact at his shop very recently in Smiths Falls.
For the record:
- I saw one of his employees sharpening blades on the newly refurbished grinder.
- He was recently in Tennessee promoting his company to the US market and that same employee was back in Canada working away on the blades.
- They are on summer hours just as the answering machine says when you call 613-283-2323
Ice King is not a publicly traded company. It is a privately owned, family-run business. To see "paperwork" one must be a lawyer or banker to this private company.
Creditors (for which I am one) would only see paperwork if the company has filed for bankruptcy, which it has not. If the company were to be sold, there is no requirement to inform creditors.
It is unfortunate that the information of a company for which its shares are privately held needs to be aired on a public forum, but I feel some defence of the company is needed.
To the decent ice makers on here who are legitimately concerned, please keep this in mind: I get the feeling that these attacks are not from a random ice maker in June. They reek of desparation and seem to me they are attacks not on the company, but on Bill personally.
Whatever axe these people have to grind with Bill, I think it would be most constructive to leave it off of here.
Good luck to all for the upcoming curling season.
To: FOR THE RECORD
For the record,
. here in Canada, going into receivership is one step away from bankruptcy and that is public knowledge.
. If you truly are a creditor, then you would have received the papers.
I do not know how or why Bill would be promoting his company to the American
market when up here in Canada his company is in receivership.
Curious and Curlers' best friend: If you were to put a real name on your post we probably would believe you. But since you are hiding behind a fake names and 60% of the stuff that gets posted on a websites is not believeable then nobody is going to believe you. That is why you are getting riped. I did talk to Bill last week and he is still in business.
Well then if Bill says he is still in business, then I guess he's still in business.
Have you been to his shop? Have you seen the Ice King truck?
Who do you think 'For The Record' is?
Maybe you should ask Bill after July 8, 2008 and see if he's still claiming he is in business.
This is absolutely insane. I have nothing to gain by informing everyone of the real situation in Smiths Falls. I have done that. If you want to continue believing him, then that is your option (and your mistake to make). It doesn't affect me either way.
As for Curler's Best Friend, I am sure that he/she is also feeling like the rest of the creditors that Bill is so effortlessly sticking it to.
I actually find it strange that you have all this blind faith in Bill. Why? Doesn't matter. Now that Bill has everyone tangled in this legal mess called bankruptcy, I will no longer comment on anything. I certainly will not identify myself. I shouldn't have to.
Best of luck to all....whether you heed my warning or not.
I would also guess that Curley Cue is also in the same situation as myself and Curler's Best Friend.
That is only 3 that are on the list. The list of creditors is a very long one.
I assure you that the odds all 3 of us are telling the truth are pretty good and that the 60% that's been posted that is "not believeable" would be the stuff Bill has posted.
But like I said, believe it or not. It doesn't affect me at all, but your adamant defence of Bill is somewhat troubling and puzzling.
"Ice King has gone out of business."-CURIOUS 4-25-08 - I do business with many companies in bankruptcy that are still "in business". That is why Mike prefaced your false statement, because it was false. Many clubs have received blades since then. How do you define "out of Business"?
Not sure how Canada works but there are two types in the states, Chapter 7 and Chapter 11. In the first you liquidate assets and pay who you can (Lawyers get most) and in Chapter 11 you reorganize and continue with business. Since operations are still ongoing you are libeling Ice King.
Since Bill is claiming bankruptcy in Canada, what you don't know doesn't matter. At least you have acknowledged that bankruptcy has been claimed.
Bottom line, he's sticking it to his creditors. If he's got a plan (rather you both have a plan) to save Bill and not Ice King and it's creditors, then that is even worse.
In Canada, the government agencies and the banks and the other secured loans will receive funds first, although I'm sure Bill has made sure there won't be any funds available.
If you call a refurbished grinder an asset, then I guess I'm questioning your business skills.
The clubs that have sent blades to Smiths Falls are doing it by taking care of their own shipping. I don't think there are any trucking companies that will even take Bill's calls.
Whatever your plans are....if Bill is planning on skipping out on everyone here he owes and heads to the states, then it will be a matter of time before he has to declare bankruptcy in the US too....guess your knowledge of that will come in handy for him then.
So, whoever you are LISTEN, your denial with what is really going on makes your opinion useless.
The only one liabling (or did you mean labelling?)Ice King is Bill everytime he denies the truth, as well as yourself everytime you defend this and him.
Thought I'd let you all know that I too have seen the paperwork and the numbers and it is very true. Ice King is in receivership and weeks away from Bankruptcy.
Why are there so many attacks and denials and defences of Bill Wood when he is clearly lying to all of you.
Have you ever heard the term ...."I think you protest too much?" That is how you are all coming across. Why?
Have you noticed how many reads this string has been getting? Do you honestly think you can convince all of those who are reading these posts that this is just a nasty rumour? Pretty pathetic if you think you can. The truth is the truth and there isn't anything anyone can do to change it.
Assuming a club doesn't want to send a blade to Ice King and is on the Eastern portion of the continent where can we send the blades? Any suggestions?
The fact remains that, until Bill Wood or Ice King makes it official that they are out of business, they are not out of business. Slugging it out with rumour on this website is not official and is highly inappropriate.
Dory, ask around who does the sharpening of guillotine blades, because they will have the equipment to do any blades. Then it is simply a matter of finding the individual(s) who can achieve the very fine tolerances required for an ice blade. If you need the data, send me an email.
scotcurlicegroup@aol.com
The only fact that remains is that Bill is a liar.
You really have no problem doing business with someone like that? You really think that this liar is going to suddenly tell the truth?
I'm sure if you were a creditor you would understand the sheer frustration of seeing his bold face lies in writing here and to see others defending him!
It is not a rumour. It is a documented fact!
If I was a creditor of a struggling business the last thing I would be doing is driving business away from them making it even more unlikely he will be around to pay me. My guess is curious is not selling rocket science consulting.
First of all, if you saw the list of creditors and the amounts, you wouldn't even suggest that there will ever be a chance Bill will make payment to anybody. Especially since he's only got a few blades to sharpen on his refurbished grinder (working 2 days a week), and those are from clubs that are taking care of their own shipping.If he makes any money, I'm sure he'll be hiding it and lying about that too.
Secondly, do you think your opinion or insults of me mean anything to me? Your defending this liar and his bad business practices.
Rocket science? No I've never claimed to be selling rocket science. Nor am I dealing with one.
Struggling business? He took a pretty profitable company and ran it into the ground in 2 years times! He's past struggling!
Just tried to access Ice King's website and got "So Sorry. This website has been taken off line"
I've just tried it and the website is normal. I don't think the problem was Bill's.
Can I suggest that you guys start a new topic regarding Ice King? The OP was asking about where to send blades and that question has more or less been answered.
I agree. I do believe anyone with any sense would agree that sending a blade to Smiths Falls (Ice King) would be a really dumb thing to do.
Just got my blades sharpened at Ice King this week and all I can tell you is they are at least sharpening 5 days a week.
You were there and saw this? I guess Bill's also lying about being open only 2 days a week in the summer (Tues and Thurs I believe his answering machine says....according to Duct Tape's post above).
Like I said, whatever business he can do will be for local clubs or clubs that will pay for their own shipping both ways. He'll say he's only working 2 days a week, yet he's really open 5. Guess he doesn't have to report the income he makes on those 3 'unopened' days.
All those who feel the need to defend Bill should probably do as the post further up suggests, and start a new topic for this Ice King saga. Sounds like it could go on and on for a while yet.
Better yet, if you really want to 'help him' maybe you shouldn't be reporting every crooked thing he's doing. That way maybe he can make a few extra bucks (that he'll probably hide somewhere). If he's going to keep lying and pretending things are still 'business as usual', it would probably be easier for him to live his dellusional life without everyone here getting a play by play of his final days as the owner of Ice King.
Or is the only satisfaction you can get at this point(as defenders of Bill) is to have the last word.
Kind of a sad pathetic thought, but if that is the case, go for it. I'm pretty sure any rational person who has been reading this topic will agree it is only smart to go elsewhere to get their blades sharpened for the next season. Hopefully there is plenty of time for them to find another company to sharpen their blades. At the very least, none of them will become more victims of Bill's unethical business practices.
They only have the office staff in two days a week and sharpen blades five days. During the summer months, this seems reasonable as the summer is when they have a blacklog of blades to sharpen and few phone calls.
I'll bet Bill has less phone calls....rather Bill takes less phone calls.
Sorry...meant to let you have the last word here.
Go for it. I am really done here. It's pointless to continue back and forth with those who are determined to defend Bill and continue playing out this charade. Like I said, anyone with any common sense knows the true facts and will be able to defend themselves from being ripped off by Bill.
I don't need to comment further and if you feel you must, you should do as was suggest further up the page and start a new topic. This topic is suppose to be able companies that can actually fulfill the job of sharpening a blade and then returning it to the club in time for the next season.
I do beleive that "Curious" has a personal problem with Bill. If you don't want to use Ice King, then don't. I don't, but it doesn't make me an a**hole. You are obviously not a business man. I think that there may be some finacial problems and Bill is doing all that he can to make things work out for himself and his customers. Do you think that you are helping the customers or hurting Bill's efforts to continue. You are an a**hole. I hope you stay true to your post above and not return to this site. If you do, this will tell everyone of your lack of character. Have a nice life!
a**hole? No one called you or Bill an a**hole. Bill is a liar. "Some financial problems" doesn't come close to describing the situation.
Of course opinions are like a**holes. Everyone has one. Most rational people like to form their's on fact. What do you form yours on?
My lack of character isn't the issue either. Helping the clubs to avoid being ripped off IS helping the customer so they won't become victims. Bill is doing all he can to help himself only. To think otherwise is a mistake and stupid.
Obviously all you can do is insult me because defending Bill is wrong, dumb and useless. Guess my character (which your opinion of means nothing) won't allow me to let you change the subject.
Thank you for your concern for my future. I hope to have a nice life no matter how many a**holes I run into. It's the liars I have no use for.
All I can say is that you've stated your case, now shut up and move on.
There is no point in debating a situation that nobody can prove with a guy who will not identify himself.
I know Bill quite well, and the last time I spoke with him (Around June 10th), they had just installed a new grinder and were ramping up for next season. According to you, he was lying to me.
You claim to be a creditor, you also can not prove this. Your posts have consitantly been written in a way to try to scare customers away from using Ice King, and libeling the owner. If you were truly a creditor this would be the last (and dumbest) thing you could possibly do. If Ice King goes under, you would lose your investment. If you were a creditor, you would be best served by coming on here and telling the world about how the sun shines out of Bill's ass!
Also, isn't it strange how there are three "creditors" are on this same forum? I don't know, it's just a really weird coincidence that three random people are all professional icemakers, who happen to have interests in the exact same small business (Ice King) and browse this very forum on a regular basis? What are the odds on that happening? Methinks it's time to buy a lottery ticket...
Or perhaps it's a guy who has a beef with Bill with three different accounts.... nah, can't be it. That would mean you had very little credibility.
Speaking of that, lets see how credible you are....
On the "Ice King Announces Expansion" thread started 10 weeks ago, your post (April 30) was:
(Quote) "Heard last week that Ice King isn't expanding, but rather shutting down! The story I got was that all the employees were terminated and that Bill is starting up a new company in a few weeks, with a totally different name
Of course this could be a nasty rumour, but it would smart for any club that deals with Ice King to check this out. I would think there would be some warranty issues and perhaps some problems with the blade sharpening services. Then again, there may not be any problems if Bill is still going to be doing business in the curling world." (End Quote)
("You heard?", "This could be a nasty rumour?" I'm sorry, if you were a creditor with inside info, why are your first posts on the topic about "possible nasty rumours" you heard from some guy?)
You have also stated on a few occasions that the company is bankrupt, already shut down and all the employees have been let go. This is also a complete lie.
There's a few examples of how you've mislead the people on this forum.
You have stated the foreclosure date is July 8th. If the website is up, and the phone still works on July 9th, we'll know for sure if you are truthful or a bigger liar than you claim Bill is.
So, if any icemakers/clubs are worried, just wait to ship your blades until July 9th. Also, in the event that the company actually does go under, if your club owns the blade it won't dissapear forever. It's your club's property, not Bill's. You may have to pay to get it shipped back unsharpened, but it would have to be sent back to you. For Bill, or Ice King to keep all the blades would be theft. The blade is the property of your club.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt though, lets put this thread on pause until July 9th. Then we'll know for sure what is the true story. If you are being truthful, I will apologise. If you're lying, I suggest you not post on this forum again.
Why are you so determined to make me out to be doing something wrong? Ever heard the phrase "I think you protest too much?"
Why only 3 creditors on this forum? Well 3 out of the two pages of creditors is a small percentage. If I were all 3, why would that lessen my credibility? I'm sure there are more creditors reading this topic, so to have only 3 actually post information isn't that unbelieveable. By the way, I've got to wonder how many alias' you and Bill have, because I don't believe there is anyone other than Bill and yourself that are trying to defend Bill. (Have you checked out the 3 alias' join dates? Sweetbuddy's been a member here since 2006.
You have such a screwed up mind for business, it's no wonder you are defending Bill. The money Bill owes will never be paid. It has already been lost. Everyone on that list knows the list is too long and the amounts owed are too high that unless Bill were to win the lottery, it will never be paid. Better tell Bill to buy the ticket if he expects to stay in business after lying to and ripping off so many people in the curling world.
Who do you think you are to tell me to go away? I've obviously hit a nerve with you, but have you noticed the number of reads this topic gets in a day? Do you think you'll convince anyone that all of this isn't true?
You say I'm 'scaring' customers away...call it what you want, I call it warning. I'm telling people to be careful before shipping to Smiths Falls. How is that 'scaring' anyone except Bill (and you)?
If a blade gets shipped to Smiths Falls and it is on a truck from one of the trucking companies on the list (and there are a lot of them), then that company could seize the blade. If Bill isn't at the 'shop' to receive the blade, then it sits in the shipping yard until someone tracks it down.
No, scaring the customer would be to tell them to 'take a chance' and send the blade. I don't think anyone has the blind faith you do in Bill, now that they have the TRUE facts. You have admitted that at the very least, a club will have to pay to ship the blade to and from Smiths Falls, only to have it returned dull. How is that a 'good' scenerio for anyone? Pay double, possibly have to find it first and get it back dull? Pretty pricey for most clubs, especially with fuel costs rising (shipping rates are continuing to rise daily).
You're reasoning, threats, insults, etc. makes you sound so desperate. How have I mislead anyone? What lie have I told? Bill himself said he let his employees go (for the summer?). Were you ever in Smiths Falls? Did you see the new grinder and the employees and the 100+ blades? Or are you assuring everyone that I'm lying simply because Bill told you all of these things are there ?
Wait for July 9th? Why wait? Send a blade to Smiths Falls and let us all know what happens. If you are so sure of your buddy's sincere intentions to do the right thing for his customer, then be his customer and then report back to us the actual facts of what happens.
You should put this thread on pause til July 9. It will likely take that long for you to ship your blade and then report to us what is happening. Unless you have some actual documented proof that all went well with shipping your blade to Bill (and you get it back sharpened) then you have nothing more to report or post that is of any credibility to anyone here.
Why did I state it was a nasty rumour on April 30th? Because the actual legal papers stating the company was in receivership, didn't arrive until May. Imagine my (& others) surprise and frustration at the nerve of Bill posting his lies even after the paperwork was received.
So once again, your attempt to change the subject isn't going to work. You have just got to try and admit the truth and move on yourself. I don't want an apology from you. It would be worth nothing to me, besides it is all of the clubs that were at risk you will need to apologize to.
Like I've said over and over, my intention was always just to alert everyone to the truth about what is going on, and I've accomplished that. I know I've saved some from becoming victims. I do not need to identify myself or defend my position to you or anyone else. I'm not the one that is about to rip off people that have done nothing but help. Bill knows full well that the legal proceedings have begun. What does he expect to gain by conducting himself this way and by posting bold face lies? Does he think he's smarter than those on the list? How insulting can that be?
What the future holds for all the creditors, you, Bill and Ice King is not known by anyone, but I can guarantee you that these legal proceedings do increase the odds that by the time the next curling season begins, Ice King will be history. If only you could accept that now and move on. I'm sure everyone that continues to read this thread are starting to tire of your lame excuses and cheap insults.
I keep from posting in the hope that Curious will one of these times keep his word and let this thread end. Maybe one of these times. There are lots of icemakers watching this thing hoping that Ice King is in business for many years to come. They are not posting because you have done enough to damage the company's reputation on your own without any help in keeping this thread going.
BTW, I am not new to this site as I am the computer challenged poster formerly known as Disco Stu
So you didn't just sign up on June 27, 2008? That is what is listed under your name. I suppose you are saying you just signed up as "Stu" on June 27, 2008. Why did you do that? Do you have 2 accounts here too? Why? So you can make it seem like there are more than 2 people backing Bill?
I will 'keep my word' and let this thread end, when I no longer am attacked for telling the truth. When will the attacks end? Why did they start in the first place? Why are they continuing when there is more than enough proof that I am telling the truth. I guess that must be why. The only thing any of you (who are having trouble accepting that Bill is lying to all of you) can do is attack me. Pretty pathetic for grown adults. Also a pretty juvenile tactic, trying to change the subject (again). Besides, I do believe it was suggested to everyone to start a new Ice King thread and let this thread get back to the original question. When will you let this thread end?
If you are so sure that I am lying, and you are so sure that Bill is being victimized, then why don't you send a blade to Smiths Falls and let us all know what happens. Does your club have enough funds to lose the money that a round trip will cost, only for you to get your dull blade back? Maybe you could get Bill to tell what trucking companies he's used in the past. That way you could possibly reduce the risk of losing the blade by avoiding using any trucking companies on the list.
I also think it is rather arrogant of you to speak for everyone reading this thread. How do you know why no one is posting? You sound like Duct Tape when he thinks he's got the authority to tell me to go away and never return. (again, pretty arrogant)/
Your immature and arrogant posts only further proves that your reputation is not going to convince anyone that they should just ignore the truth (believe that I am lying only because I don't like Bill personally) and carry on doing business with Bill. When you read this post, can you see how your posts are making both yourself and Bill sound desperate and pathetic? Why would anyone believe someone like that? Why would any rational person NOT listen to the warning and be very careful before shipping anything to Smiths Falls. Is your opinion of other clubs so low that you think any of them will allow themselves to get screwed over and ignore the warning?
I can also not take full credit for damaging Ice King's reputation. None of this would have been possible if Bill hadn't of started it. He's the only one who has damaged Ice King's reputation. If anything, I'm sure, most readers are thinking the same thing I've been thinking...how could Bill take a very profitable company and run it into the ground in 2 years time, and why would anyone feel the need to defend Bill? Actually all of your posts are probably only further proving the truth and doing more to keep this thread an interesting read for everyone.
Maybe this time you will think twice before posting anymore immature comments or attacks. Maybe you will tire of being so pathetic with your opinions and insults that you will let this thread end. Maybe one of these times eh?
Of course I too would like to hope that Ice King will be in business for a long time, but I am not naive. If it were to be in business for a long time to come, then everybody would win. Simply 'wishing' it to be so is simply childish.
In a perfect world, Bill could sue Curious for slander and make enough money from Curious to pay Curious.
In a perfect world Bill wouldn't be able to screwed over so many people.
The fact of the matter is Curious has contended that Ice King is out of business which is not true now nor was it true when he first made the statement. He seems to be trying to fortell a future event. Stu's perfect world as stated above cannot occur since the damages caused by Curious are most likely far in excess of any outstanding debt he has. Canadian Tort law is quite specific and has been updated for the Cyberworld. My guess is Mr. Potter will be contacted to give up the identification and or IP address of Curious and any other of his fellow defendents by the court system as the libel case plays out.
"For a finding of liability for the tort of defamation in Canadian realspace and then as applied to Cyberspace, three elements must be proven. First, the plaintiff must demonstrate that the defamatory charge was published; this does not mean that the defamation must have been printed and distributed, rather it is sufficient that the statements have been communicated to a person other than the plaintiff. Second, the plaintiff must establish that the defamation expressly, or by reasonable implication, referred to him/herself. Third, the materials must have been false and, in the eyes of a reasonable person, discrediting to the plaintiff.(13)
As noted by Dietrich, it is not necessary for the plaintiff to prove that the defendant intended to defame. Nor must it be proven that the defendant did lower the plaintiff's reputation in the minds of persons accessing the materials and that the plaintiff actually suffered any damages from the defamatory materials.(14) The onus lies with the defendant. As the threshold for what is defamatory is low, the majority of the courts time is spent assessing whether the defendant has one of the defences available.
In Cyberspace, much like realspace, the courts will assume that the materials were intended to defame the plaintiff and that the plaintiff has suffered damages. However, looking at Canada under the example of the Ontario Libel and Slander Act the requirement to prove damages in slander cases has been removed in certain situations. These include cases which call into question the reputation of a person in relation to their office, profession, calling, trade or business.(15) If it could be proven that B refused to enter into a contract with A as a result of a slanderous statement made by C, under Cana